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	<title>Comments on: Equality and Transparency, Part II</title>
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	<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/</link>
	<description>An Irreverent Look at the Glocalized World</description>
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		<title>By: El Oso, El Moreno, and El Abogado &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Equality and Transparency, Part III</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-74914</link>
		<dc:creator>El Oso, El Moreno, and El Abogado &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Equality and Transparency, Part III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 20:17:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-74914</guid>
		<description>[...] The main point I was trying to make in Part II - and which Chris was kind enough to back up with real-deal-holyfield research - was that my reaction came from the gut &#8230; or, that is, from the DNA. It was a violent and spontaneous response that spewed forth before I gave the situation any kind of cognitive thought. I also tried to argue in the comments that my reaction wasn&#8217;t inspired by my empathy or the wealthy woman&#8217;s callousness, but rather, a disruption of some arbitrary concept I obviously hold dearly: &#8220;equality.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The main point I was trying to make in Part II &#8211; and which Chris was kind enough to back up with real-deal-holyfield research &#8211; was that my reaction came from the gut &#8230; or, that is, from the DNA. It was a violent and spontaneous response that spewed forth before I gave the situation any kind of cognitive thought. I also tried to argue in the comments that my reaction wasn&#8217;t inspired by my empathy or the wealthy woman&#8217;s callousness, but rather, a disruption of some arbitrary concept I obviously hold dearly: &#8220;equality.&#8221; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: irasali</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-65478</link>
		<dc:creator>irasali</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 May 2006 21:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-65478</guid>
		<description>while race or class played a part in this exchange, i think ultimately this woman was a bully.  bullies tend to target those they deem weaker than them.  in this instance she knew that this man probably wouldn&#039;t lift a finger at her.  i wonder if she would have done the same if it was a woman (her size or bigger of any race) holding the rag and windex bottle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>while race or class played a part in this exchange, i think ultimately this woman was a bully.  bullies tend to target those they deem weaker than them.  in this instance she knew that this man probably wouldn&#8217;t lift a finger at her.  i wonder if she would have done the same if it was a woman (her size or bigger of any race) holding the rag and windex bottle.</p>
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		<title>By: Beckie</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-64668</link>
		<dc:creator>Beckie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 20:58:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-64668</guid>
		<description>Honestly Oso, your reaction was normal for a humanitarian.  The only thing I could think of that would of got back at her was to get up and give the young man with the windex bottle a big hug right in front of her insipid facade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honestly Oso, your reaction was normal for a humanitarian.  The only thing I could think of that would of got back at her was to get up and give the young man with the windex bottle a big hug right in front of her insipid facade.</p>
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		<title>By: Joaquín</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-64571</link>
		<dc:creator>Joaquín</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 May 2006 15:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-64571</guid>
		<description>I feel your reaction was a good one...it conveys beauty in a human soul. Why oughtn&#039;t you feel rage and repulsion to see a human being clearly enjoying the subjugation and domination of another? And why not call it what it is? Your reaction tells me there is hope for humans, that reaction tells me as much when I see it and feel it all over, in different forms. It is one that asserts what is Good; refutes what is Cruel, and unconcscious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I feel your reaction was a good one&#8230;it conveys beauty in a human soul. Why oughtn&#8217;t you feel rage and repulsion to see a human being clearly enjoying the subjugation and domination of another? And why not call it what it is? Your reaction tells me there is hope for humans, that reaction tells me as much when I see it and feel it all over, in different forms. It is one that asserts what is Good; refutes what is Cruel, and unconcscious.</p>
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		<title>By: oso</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-64145</link>
		<dc:creator>oso</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 May 2006 18:52:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-64145</guid>
		<description>These comments remind me of a book review I read last weekend of Amartya Sen&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Identity and Violence&lt;/em&gt;. Sen supposedly argues that we each have a multitude of identities and that depending on the circumstance we emphasize one: the San Diegan, the WASP, the American, the Spanish speaker, the worker, the human being. But the reviewer is more cautious: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;For all its urbanity, however, &quot;Identities and Violence&quot; neglects what others will take to be common sense. Hutus and Tutsis will not lay down arms because they are told they are Kigalians, laborers or human beings. Sunnis and Shiites will not be coaxed into a group hug by a reminder of the religion and cultural attributes they share. The strength of Sen&#039;s argument lies in its intuitive nature: &quot;In our normal lives we see ourselves as members of a variety of groups.&quot; Its weakness lies in its failure to explain why, at critical junctures, we disown that knowledge. Is it because human cognition tends to trade in binaries? Is it because violence creates identity as much as identity creates violence? Is it because human beings fear the choices of solitude a more cosmopolitan outlook would force them to face?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Greg, Jennifer, Swervecurve, Steven,

I wish I could agree with you ... and with Sen ... that my reaction was born out of empathy. It would make it more noble and less malevolent. But I don&#039;t remember feeling any empathy for the windshield washer. In fact, I was furious at him as well for not having the &lt;em&gt;blanquillos&lt;/em&gt; to stand up to her. Nor do I think that we had anything in common: to the degree that a windshield washer is similar to a barista, I think everyone could claim that they work in the &quot;service industry.&quot;

Race, it seems, probably was a contributing factor. Especially given that I was in South Africa less than a decade after the end of apartheid. But I don&#039;t think it was the predominant factor. If I picture Condalezza Rice doing the exact same thing to a working class white kid (or, for that matter, Bill Cosby doing it to a white - or any other color - woman), I&#039;m sure I&#039;d be just as indignant.

No, I can&#039;t convince myself that I reacted out of empathy. I don&#039;t think I even reacted to the woman&#039;s callousness. I&#039;d say it was something much more objective and detached. I think what made my blood pressure rise and my fists clench was a disruption of an abstract regard for &quot;equality&quot; or &quot;fairness.&quot; My rage didn&#039;t come because I related to the man with the blue rag or because I was offended by the woman with the wine glass. It came because I saw that one person had power (ie. money) and another person did not ... and that was enough.

Assuming I&#039;m being honest with myself, where does that violent desire for equality from? Did I learn it as a good desciple of west coast liberal academia? Or is it deeply programmed into our DNA? Did early bands of homo sapien, or even our predecessors, fare better when members of a tribe felt themselves obligated to enforce &quot;egalitarianism&quot; even if it came at the cost of smashing some homo-sapien face into a tree trunk?

Leahpeah,

I agree. I think that high-handedness is always inspired by 1.) insecurity and 2.) fear of losing a position of unwarranted power/priviledge. But evolutionarily speaking, that makes sense to me. As does someone who doesn&#039;t have power wanting to knock the king off the hill. But what I don&#039;t get is why any creature would feel a gut impulse to enforce a sense of overall equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>These comments remind me of a book review I read last weekend of Amartya Sen&#8217;s <em>Identity and Violence</em>. Sen supposedly argues that we each have a multitude of identities and that depending on the circumstance we emphasize one: the San Diegan, the WASP, the American, the Spanish speaker, the worker, the human being. But the reviewer is more cautious: </p>
<blockquote><p>For all its urbanity, however, &#8220;Identities and Violence&#8221; neglects what others will take to be common sense. Hutus and Tutsis will not lay down arms because they are told they are Kigalians, laborers or human beings. Sunnis and Shiites will not be coaxed into a group hug by a reminder of the religion and cultural attributes they share. The strength of Sen&#8217;s argument lies in its intuitive nature: &#8220;In our normal lives we see ourselves as members of a variety of groups.&#8221; Its weakness lies in its failure to explain why, at critical junctures, we disown that knowledge. Is it because human cognition tends to trade in binaries? Is it because violence creates identity as much as identity creates violence? Is it because human beings fear the choices of solitude a more cosmopolitan outlook would force them to face?</p></blockquote>
<p>Greg, Jennifer, Swervecurve, Steven,</p>
<p>I wish I could agree with you &#8230; and with Sen &#8230; that my reaction was born out of empathy. It would make it more noble and less malevolent. But I don&#8217;t remember feeling any empathy for the windshield washer. In fact, I was furious at him as well for not having the <em>blanquillos</em> to stand up to her. Nor do I think that we had anything in common: to the degree that a windshield washer is similar to a barista, I think everyone could claim that they work in the &#8220;service industry.&#8221;</p>
<p>Race, it seems, probably was a contributing factor. Especially given that I was in South Africa less than a decade after the end of apartheid. But I don&#8217;t think it was the predominant factor. If I picture Condalezza Rice doing the exact same thing to a working class white kid (or, for that matter, Bill Cosby doing it to a white &#8211; or any other color &#8211; woman), I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;d be just as indignant.</p>
<p>No, I can&#8217;t convince myself that I reacted out of empathy. I don&#8217;t think I even reacted to the woman&#8217;s callousness. I&#8217;d say it was something much more objective and detached. I think what made my blood pressure rise and my fists clench was a disruption of an abstract regard for &#8220;equality&#8221; or &#8220;fairness.&#8221; My rage didn&#8217;t come because I related to the man with the blue rag or because I was offended by the woman with the wine glass. It came because I saw that one person had power (ie. money) and another person did not &#8230; and that was enough.</p>
<p>Assuming I&#8217;m being honest with myself, where does that violent desire for equality from? Did I learn it as a good desciple of west coast liberal academia? Or is it deeply programmed into our DNA? Did early bands of homo sapien, or even our predecessors, fare better when members of a tribe felt themselves obligated to enforce &#8220;egalitarianism&#8221; even if it came at the cost of smashing some homo-sapien face into a tree trunk?</p>
<p>Leahpeah,</p>
<p>I agree. I think that high-handedness is always inspired by 1.) insecurity and 2.) fear of losing a position of unwarranted power/priviledge. But evolutionarily speaking, that makes sense to me. As does someone who doesn&#8217;t have power wanting to knock the king off the hill. But what I don&#8217;t get is why any creature would feel a gut impulse to enforce a sense of overall equality.</p>
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		<title>By: leahpeah</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-63376</link>
		<dc:creator>leahpeah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 May 2006 07:01:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-63376</guid>
		<description>you watch the behaviour in just about any culture, including animals and insects. if there is someone on the top, that means there are people (or whatever) underneath. and once those people have that sense of accomplishment, they will go to great lengths to keep it. it&#039;s interesting to me that no matter what i accomplish or learn or acquire, i always feel like i haven&#039;t &#039;made it&#039; and since i don&#039;t know why or what that should feel like, only that i don&#039;t feel like i have it, i assume that i&#039;m a fake to everyone else and that they know it. i repeatedly have to remind myself to be in the moment and accept myself for who i am, whatever that is. my thought is that i wonder if people like that snotty woman are really insecure and must make the person &#039;beneath them&#039; really feel it so that in comparison, they can feel much higher/better. maybe they don&#039;t know who they are by themselves but only when putting someone else down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you watch the behaviour in just about any culture, including animals and insects. if there is someone on the top, that means there are people (or whatever) underneath. and once those people have that sense of accomplishment, they will go to great lengths to keep it. it&#8217;s interesting to me that no matter what i accomplish or learn or acquire, i always feel like i haven&#8217;t &#8216;made it&#8217; and since i don&#8217;t know why or what that should feel like, only that i don&#8217;t feel like i have it, i assume that i&#8217;m a fake to everyone else and that they know it. i repeatedly have to remind myself to be in the moment and accept myself for who i am, whatever that is. my thought is that i wonder if people like that snotty woman are really insecure and must make the person &#8216;beneath them&#8217; really feel it so that in comparison, they can feel much higher/better. maybe they don&#8217;t know who they are by themselves but only when putting someone else down.</p>
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		<title>By: swervecurve</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-63258</link>
		<dc:creator>swervecurve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 23:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-63258</guid>
		<description>Callousness in any context is infuriating. I find that when it comes with power differentials, or when the humiliated can only respond with meekness, it&#039;s downright painful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Callousness in any context is infuriating. I find that when it comes with power differentials, or when the humiliated can only respond with meekness, it&#8217;s downright painful.</p>
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		<title>By: Jennifer Woodard Maderazo</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-63248</link>
		<dc:creator>Jennifer Woodard Maderazo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 20:28:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-63248</guid>
		<description>I had that same thought. While many would write it off as &quot;white liberal guilt&quot;, I think it&#039;s more about seeing yourself more accurately reflected in the blue rag guy, maybe knowing that in another place in the world, under different circumstances, had you been born another color, that would have been you. Empathy is about feeling for others, and I think the &quot;others&#039; that conjure it most in us are those who we find similar, regardless of race or social class. By your definition, in Mexico I should have wanted to hang out with American-educated upper echelon &quot;fresa&quot; women, but I felt more comfortable in the presence of the liquado lady or the janitor. I found that most of my American friends felt the same way. Why is that? It must be that there is an innate and unifying value (authenticity ?) we find in people we feel we identify with. Perhaps your desire to not reflect (identify with) the mean white lady also intensified your feelings of empathy, which is, in the end... &quot;white liberal guilt&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had that same thought. While many would write it off as &#8220;white liberal guilt&#8221;, I think it&#8217;s more about seeing yourself more accurately reflected in the blue rag guy, maybe knowing that in another place in the world, under different circumstances, had you been born another color, that would have been you. Empathy is about feeling for others, and I think the &#8220;others&#8217; that conjure it most in us are those who we find similar, regardless of race or social class. By your definition, in Mexico I should have wanted to hang out with American-educated upper echelon &#8220;fresa&#8221; women, but I felt more comfortable in the presence of the liquado lady or the janitor. I found that most of my American friends felt the same way. Why is that? It must be that there is an innate and unifying value (authenticity ?) we find in people we feel we identify with. Perhaps your desire to not reflect (identify with) the mean white lady also intensified your feelings of empathy, which is, in the end&#8230; &#8220;white liberal guilt&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-63247</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 May 2006 19:50:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://el-oso.net/blog/archives/2006/05/17/equality-and-transparency-part-ii/#comment-63247</guid>
		<description>Evolutionarily, is it possible that you feel a kinship with the man cleaning the windows? Be it service industry experience or a similar encounter with a bitchy society lady, it seems that you &lt;i&gt;feel&lt;/i&gt; that you have more in common with the young man than you do with the woman regardless what the genetic truth is. In order to support my obviously quickly put together hypothesis, it would follow that your rage was brought about by the class injustice; however, the class injustice is a manifestation of the racism (or possibly visa versa).
That&#039;s my idea on first read. And I know exactly the kind of woman you are talking about. I have met countless S.A. women who have some sort of racial entitlement complex. It is pretty disgusting, and I can say, with reasonably certainty, that I have felt exactly what you felt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Evolutionarily, is it possible that you feel a kinship with the man cleaning the windows? Be it service industry experience or a similar encounter with a bitchy society lady, it seems that you <i>feel</i> that you have more in common with the young man than you do with the woman regardless what the genetic truth is. In order to support my obviously quickly put together hypothesis, it would follow that your rage was brought about by the class injustice; however, the class injustice is a manifestation of the racism (or possibly visa versa).<br />
That&#8217;s my idea on first read. And I know exactly the kind of woman you are talking about. I have met countless S.A. women who have some sort of racial entitlement complex. It is pretty disgusting, and I can say, with reasonably certainty, that I have felt exactly what you felt.</p>
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