Posted 5 years, 8 months ago around lunchtime by oso
Latin Spanish speaking actors often portray characters from other countries. Mexican Gael Garcia played Argentinian Che Guevara in Motorcyle Diaries. Also from Mexico, Lumi Cavazos starred as a Columbian maid in Bottle Rocket. Spanish Javier Bardem played a Cuban in Before Night Falls. And Victor Hugo Martin played Fidel Castro, though he too is from Mexico. The list goes on, but my memory fails. My point is, most viewers whether White or Latin give little notice to the actor’s nationality. It’s no different than Australian Mel Gibson starring in the Patriot.
But Lilia O’Hara, a writer for our local Spanish weekly, says that by selecting Spanish Paz Vega (my heart goes thump thump), Mexicans were misrepresented. Trying to explain herself she says, “the truth is that a woman like that, with out without legal documents to work in the United States, would never wind up as a maid.”
Then in the very next paragraph she writes that “the film perpetuates the stereotype of the Mexican maid.” I would like to know how. I thought Paz Vega did an excellent job as an immigrant mother, sacrificing much of herself for the future of her daughter. O’Hara says that a woman like “that” (read: beautiful and intelligent), even without papers, would never wind up a maid. I disagree. How does a single mother who can’t speak English, without legal documents and work experience land any other job besides becoming a maid or working in a kitchen? Perhaps by meeting a wealthy, lonely Gringo, but director James Brooks cut out that possibility when Paz Vega chastises two businessmen who tried to buy her a drink in front of her daughter.
Here in San Diego thousands of beautiful and intelligent women from Mexico and Latin America are cleaning hotel rooms and working in the kitchens of Rubio’s Fish Tacos. And I think it is offensive of O’Hara to cross them off as “unrealistic characters” because they don’t have the same resources as those of us fortunate enough to be born here. When Laura – both beautiful and intelligent – was living here, with a fair grasp of English and a college degree, she had to struggle to find work at a local burrito shop. Now she’s in Monterrey with her own office working as a program director for an import/export company.
Regarding the scene where mother and daughter easily walk across the border, O’Hara laments the “mistaken impression the film will create when it’s shown in Latin America.” That may be true, but describing the tumultuous journey from Mexico to the United States it outside the scope of the film. Brooks was simply looking for a two second visual representation to say that they were coming to America as ilegales. If, however, the movie sends a message to young, beautiful women in Latin America who think they’re gonna fly to Los Estados Unidos and find the easy life (which trust me, there are many), and says no, it’s not that easy at all and you very may well end up regretting your decision, then I think that is a good thing.
So here are my questions for O’Hara and for anyone else who has seen Spanglish:
- What is the stereotype of the Mexican maid and how did the film perpetuate it?
-
What sort of actress and characater would have been more convincing, and more
representative of “a Mexican woman?” (please god do not say Selma Hayek) - What is the process for a beautiful, intelligent single mother who speaks no English and has no papers to so easily become “an executive, a model, or a psychologist?”
I liked Spanglish a lot. I related to a lot of the scenes, conversations, and arguments. O’Hara is right that it’s not so much a film on outright culture clash as the title may suggest. But it is about personality clash and the ways our cultures effect how we relate to and treat other people.
some stereotypical characteristics, that might exist, of the maid, that are often portrayed in movies with servant position characters of latino descent, were that she:
a.) had brown skin
b.) spoke with a latino accent
c.) was softspoken to the family, but strict and forthright with her daughter
d.) unremarkably and unrepresentatively physically attractive. the “Hollywood” sense of a maid. ie. Jennifer Lopez, etc.
e.) had good (catholic) moral values, tasteful, and under control at all times.
f.) had way nicer clothes than most illegal single mexican mothers.
those characteristics seem to be somewhat representative of most maid characters in movies, where the maid is of latino descent. at least, it does to me.
2. honestly, i don’t know what kind of character would play a more convincing maid. i’ve never had a maid, and i’ve never known anyone that has a maid that comes to their house every day of the week. so, i just don’t know. but if i were to go off another job position of similar societal stature, i could compare maid/cleaning personnel as part of a large over-arching institution (Texas A&M University). one of the campus buildings i spend a lot of time in, has many such positions.
in that case, the character would be:
a.) much shorter. probably no taller than 5′.
b.) much older. probably no younger than 40.
c.) much less soft spoken around everyone in the building except their co-workers. probably wouldn’t speak unless spoken to, except for their co-workers.
d.) used to being ignored, and looked past.
e.) calm, mild-mannered, pleasant, tender, always gets the job done…and probably tired.
f.) probably has a white male boss, who may or may not be approx 5′ 10″, overweight, thinning white hair, is protestant, is straight middle class, and has a family and kids that get together on holidays.
3. “What is the process for a beautiful, intelligent single mother who speaks no English and has no papers to so easily become “an executive, a model, or a psychologist?”
if she were from Mexico…i think the process of her being an executive or psychologist would only come if she worked within a latino community where she could more easily identify and communicate to people of whom she relates culturally. As opposed to a more “white” community. so, for San Diego, if she wanted to become a Psychologist, she might attend a Community College in El Cajon, or Chula Vista and possibly pay for it by working at a fast food restaurant or other similar position. afterwards, she might start a practice in the same area.
as for a model, i’m guessing she would have to first be part of a modeling agency in mexico, that has ties to the US.
good questions, i liked thinking about that stuff. any thoughts?
gabe.
YOU, yes YOU know better than to use the term “Latin” they are not Latin actors. I would prefer you call me, in all seriousness, a little brown person, rather than “Latin”. If you ever call me “Latin” or my Cocos “Latin” I will give you the most fucking dirty look. You so know better. Ask El Pocho Abogado, Cindy, Yonder Lies it, Colorado Luis, Daily Texican what they fucking think of the term “Latin”. Did I mention you should know better?
sorry if I ripped you a new one too harshly, I should’ve ripped you a new one without so much force.
yeah…sorry. really.
Oh dear gabe, the tearing was ment for El Oso. You didn’t use the word “Latin” to describe a group of people. Oso is just lucky I can’t see him in person right now.
Gabe, thanks for the comments. I’ll write more when I’m not so tired and cranky.
Elena, querida, I was looking for a word that encompasses Spanish speaking actors from Spain, Latin America, and the US. Latin, Hispanic, and Iberian (or Latin@, Hispanic@, and Iberian@) are words frequently used. The fact that Hispanico and Latin offend you, but Latino does not is completely arbitrary.
Anyway, I’ve crossed it out and used Spanish speaking instead.
De Wikipedia en español:
Someone asked me what I thought about a Spanish woman playing a Mexican woman. I didn’t really care. I still haven’t seen the film, but the only thing that bugs me is that once again a mainstream film is portraying a Mexican woman in a role as a servant. We do other things too.
Actually, I would have been okay with the term “Hispanic” (in describing people from Latin America the term focuses too much on a colonizer and not all of us have “Spanish blood”) in that it is inclusive of people of Spain and Latin America.
Latino on the other hand would have not included Spaniards but would have included Brasilians, and possible Haitians (depending on who you ask). It is going to be impossible (I think) to find a term that fits everyone you want to include.
Penelope Cruz is often identified as Greek, she is not. But then would you want to sum up all Mediterranean, and Latin American actors with one term? If so why and what would it be?
What term are you going to use for Mediterraneans (including Northern Spaniards), North & South Americans, Caribbeans, and ethnically-Spanish-Filipinos? Why do you need a term? What is your objective?
(like I said I am not good at this I don’t know how to be suavesita)
“My point is, most viewers whether White or Latin give little notice to the actor’s nationality”. White or Latin? I don’t understand what you are trying to say. I am a white Mexican. If you saw me on the street you wouldn’t do a double-check I’d be just another white girl. And what counts as white?
Cindy,
Very good point.
Elena,
With all respect and mountains of abrazos, this is the last I’m going to comment on the whole Latin@ versus Hispanic versus whatever else thing. Frankly, ya me ha cansado y me vale madre. Anyone who wants to judge me on syntax rather than content is free to do so, but that is their own bias/discrimination.
You say that:
Yet if you read my comment #7 you’d see that many disagree with you. (you can also look at the discussion behind the Wikipedia article and contribute to it, which I’m sure you will)
You ask why I need any term at all and what my objective is. I need a term to classify people with a commonality. Which is why we have words like Anglo (what does that mean?), South American, Black, etc.
We all know that race is a social construct, which does an abysmal job representing genetic variation, but so be it, we still use race because it is an important and useful taxonomy.
Which is why many of us in California voted against doing away with ethnic data because we understand that despite all it’s shortcomings, race/ethnicity an important indicator when we set social policy.
OK, so that’s it for me. No more talking about how to classify Latin@s, because the syntax really doesn’t matter to me unless it changes how most people perceive the underlying meaning. I think it’s obvious that you are more sensitive to it than most others. For those of you who are now scared shitless to use the words Latin, Hispanic, or anything similar on your blog, I direct you to the official guide of how not to piss off Elenamary, which ends with a comment by Elena herself saying:
Amen sister.
I used to be scared shitless….hell I visit many latino websites and everyone has their own opinion.
For instance….I go to a “Chicano” site…..and I get shit for calling myself hispanic or latina.
I go to Migente….and am told that “Latina/o” is the preference.
*sigh
*sigh
*sigh
Damned if you do and damned if you don’t.
Hell…..as long as I don’t get called a “sp*c” or a “w*tb*ack”…….that’s all that really matters to me.
Word. I agree. And yet in México, I always find myself cringing when people call their own family members and best friends mojados, but that’s just because wetback carries so much more meaning here.
“Frankly, ya me ha cansado y me vale madre. Anyone who wants to judge me on syntax rather than content is free to do so, but that is their own bias/discrimination.”
You and me both.
I have yet to see a decent film starring Adam Sandler, so I refuse to see this one too. Why waste such an interesting title as Spanglish for a Hollywood movie? Do you have any idea of how beautiful its artsy/independent counterpart could have been? I say we stop watching this kind of movies which do nothing but perpetuate stereotypes…
damn Seyd you are awesome. I want to have your children.
Why is it that the only parts Hollywood offers to Latinos/Chicanos is that of maids, criminals, drug dealers, etc.?? Chicanos/Latinos in the U.S. are lawyers, doctors, teachers, blah blah and not just maids, cooks, gardeners, etc.
Good point Seyd and Gusta. I obviously do not watch enough Hollywood movies. Bulbo has done a good job putting out border culture flicks here in San Diego/Tijuana.
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Hello.
You american people doesn’t seem to have an idea of what means “latin”.
Culturally, it refers to the European countries and cultures that speak romances languages and share similar mediterranean-based culture (food, religion, behaviour, food, ways of life). (“romance”=latin)
It represents the southern side of western culture (vs germanic speaking countries in the north)
Italy, Spain, Portugal, France and Romania are the original latin countries.
(Have you ever heard about the myth of the “latin lover” ? it has nothing to see with mexicans or peruvians. Its come from such people as the Italian “Casanova” or the spanish “Don juan”, who where in the latin litterature the archetype of the seductive mediterranean male.)
Since the american continent have been colonized by those two sides of western european culture, this north-south opposition have been exported from Europe to america. So, as Europe, America is divided in two groups of countries : the germanic-america (anglo-saxon to be precise) : US, english canada… and the latin-america (divided itself in hispanic-america (spanish speaking); luso-america(portuguese speaking), and franco-america (french-speaking)
However, ethnically, the latin-american are not, for a big part of them of latin background (except in argentina, chili, uruguay, south brazil)
The other countries are very mixed culturally and racially with native indians and africans.
Please stop using “latin” or “latino” to refers only to south-central americans, Don’t forget that latin cultures comes from Europe ! and not consist in dancing salsa (music mainly of african origin) o and eating tacos (food mainly of aztec origins), or being brown skinned (mostly of native or african origin) – since originally latins are mediterranean whites.
What are latin cultures : http://www.unilat.org
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‘Please stop using “latin” or “latino” to refers only to south-central americans, Don’t forget that latin cultures comes from Europe ! and not consist in dancing salsa (music mainly of african origin) o and eating tacos (food mainly of aztec origins), or being brown skinned (mostly of native or african origin) – since originally latins are mediterranean whites’.
–Francisco
Don’t forget that some of us use the good ol’ dictionary to define what ‘Latin’ can mean.
Here are a few definitions in a describing sense as:
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or composed in Latin: a Latin scholar; Latin verse.
2.
1. Of or relating to ancient Rome, its people, or its culture.
2. Of or relating to Latium, its people, or its culture.
3. Of or relating to the languages that developed from Latin, such as Italian, French, Spanish, and Portuguese, or to the peoples that speak them.
4.
1. Of or relating to the peoples, countries, or cultures of Latin America.
2. Of or relating to Latinos or their culture.
5. Of or relating to the Roman Catholic Church.
I didn’t know that the word Latin could be described as of or relating to the Roman Catholic Church. I have lots of Mexican relatives who belong to the the Roman Catholic Church.
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“I didn’t know that the word Latin could be described as of or relating to the Roman Catholic Church.”
That’s just because you ignore that “latin” orginally means “roman” or “roman-rooted” (as you know rome and the roman emire have became the center of the catholic faith since the division between the east-mediterranean area (orthodox) and west mediterranean (roman catholic).
I agree to include latin-americans in the “latin” group as long as they recognise were this identity is coming from. If you use “latin” only to include “latin-americans’ and not the europeans, then you mean that what makes the latin-american being “latin” is not their Spanish or Portuguese roots but the native indian and african ones….
A argentinean friend of mine (of italo-spanish origin), when she went to USA, the people were surprised to realize she was “latin” because she doesn’t look like a mexican mestizo (lot of people told to her “how can you be latin and white ?” or “if your ancestors are european, you’re not really latin”; “you’re not a pure latin” !!! “Pure latin” for american people would be only native indian ?!!! this is a complete misunderstood and a lack of respect for the precolombian civilisations… the only latin thing in latin-america is their european part, not the indian one, I’m sorry.
america have a great passion to stole names and changing meanings of the peoples of the world as they want.
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That’s just because you ignore that “latin” orginally means “roman” or “roman-rooted” (as you know rome and the roman emire have became the center of the catholic faith since the division between the east-mediterranean area (orthodox) and west mediterranean (roman catholic).
–Francisco
I ignore the original meaning? Or did ol’ Webster ignore it?
Are you not aware that Europeans conquered parts of “LATIN AMERICA” and Mexico?
“One effect was the accidental exposure of smallpox to the Aztecs. In 1519, Cortes landed on the coast of Mexico with 600 Spaniards to conquer the strong military force of the Aztec Empire. At this time, the population was in the millions. Cortes and his army marched into Tenochititlan and arrested Montezuma. As Cortes later tried to escape with the treasures, the Aztecs attacked him. Many Aztecs and Spanish died. Unknown to the Aztecs the Spanish had an invisible advantage. Apparently, one Spaniard soldiers was infected with the smallpox virus. Within two weeks the disease infected the Aztec Empire and one forth of the population died. By 1618, Mexico’s initial population of 20 million had plummeted to about 1.6 million (Cohen 8). Francisco Lopez de Gomana, Cortes’s secretary, states, “it spreads form one Indian to another, and they, being numerous and eating and sleeping together, quickly infected the whole country.” Later, the Spaniards were able to conquer Mexico because of the weak military resistance of the Aztec Empire.”
You do know that there was intermingling between the Spaniards and the “natives” don’t ya? lol! I’m not going to get into a tit for tat conversation with you, we can agree to disagree.
I will let you have the last word now, I was sort of in an argumentative mood when I read your entry. CIAO! I mean….. adieu……I mean adios!
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“Of or relating to the peoples, countries, or cultures of Latin America.”
THIS AMERICAN DEFINITION IS UNLOGIC. if “latin” would relates to “latin-america”, then “latin-america” would means “latin-american america”. And then, “latin-american america” would mean “latin-american latin-american america” and so on…
I know that in american english this meaning have been accepted by some dictionaries and all the medias, but it is a mistake that have been used widly in your country as a slang, and later have accepted more or less officially. But it still a mistake for the rest of the world. since english became the international language, the american meaning is spreading to other countries (especially our countries), and it brainwash the peoples…
The only word that can relates to latin america at its own is latin-american.
latin relates to ALL the latin countries, not only the american ones !
Do you think that “anglo-saxon” refers only to “anglo-saxon america” ??, do you consider that only the people of USA and english Canada are “anglo-saxons”… And not the english people ?! … No, of course, so why doing it for “latin” ?
I personally think it is ignorance. Most americans ignore that the latins are rooted in south-west Europe.
Ciao a tutti
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De lo que se olvidan muchos es que el termino Hispano, o Latino se subdivide entre las muchas culturas que tiene America Latina. No es lo mismo un Argentino, un Cubano, Un Dominicano, un Puertorriqueno un Mexicano o un Chicano. Todos somos diferentes y al igual que los gringos, tenemos nuestras identidades culturales independientes y autonomas. La pelicula “Spanglish” es un proyecto de entretenimiento que trata de abordar un tema serio como es el empleo de indocumentados por familias Americanas y la lucha de estos por lograr avances en este pais que les son negados en sus tierras por los que detienen todos los hilos del poder. Los mas vienen de un pais donde ser “indio” o “naco” es un insulto y donde las diferencias socio-culturales se usan para dividir y no para enriquecer.
Como muchos, se confunden con lo que es la raza, nacionalidad y descendencia. La cultura, es algo que se vive. Los lazos de sangre son los que mas se sienten. EL patriotismo es lo que uno esta dispuesto a hacer por la tierra que lo vio a uno nacer. Por eso, no se le puede reprochar al extranjero su amor por su patria, al igual que los del patio deben de defender lo propio. Sin importar el idioma que hablen, si son de aqui, no son de alla. A fin de cuentas, creo que todos los nacidos en este pais somos “gringos”. Lo demas son etiquetas que nos buscamos colgar para complacer, o irritar, a otros.
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“Hispano, o Latino…”
para ti hispano y latino son iguales ??!! Sol para hispano-hablante america ??!!
no soy hispanohablante pero eso me sorpriende, pareces no saber a que origenes se refieren esas palabras.
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Desde España, saludos a todos
Los latinos son los que habitan en el valle de Laccio, en Roma, Italia
Los unicos Hispanos son los Españoles
Los HispanoAmericanos son los descendiente de Españoles que fueron a America
Los Hispanics o Hispanicos es un termino Anglo-americano para distinguir a las personas que hablan la lengua Española.
ahora bien lo que es realmente triste es que vosotros los Americanos os definais como latinos o Latino americanos cuando es una definicion totalmente despectiva que utilizan los ingleses o anglo americanos para despretigiaros.
en 1898 un senador de descendencia inglesa dijo “la presencia Inglesa y Angloamericana en America (se referia a Estados Unidos), es puramente anecdotica en el tiempo de la historia, dado que america fue es y sera Española o hispana en los tiempos futuros” y si no al tiempo y ya veremos
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I really don’t see waht all the fuss is about, it just depends on where you are from now. In New York, we are quite content to be Latinos or Hispanics. As long as you don’t refer to us a s sp**s!
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Paz Vega ? Viva la Hispaniole ! Man she is Fantasies numbers ten right through to one hundred !
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i have to say a simple thing. my mother would want to smack us all if we go making a big deal over what others call us who are not our family or friends anyway. we have been called worse by people meaning to be mean that someone stating something as a generic name doesnt matter. its the idea behind what was meant to be said that matter.
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I do object to Paz Vega playing a Mexican immigrant maid. She is a white European who would fit in more in Paris than in Mexico City. We need to do more to make sure that brown skin is not something to be ashamed of but to be proud of. Films that portray Mexican immigrants should hire actors who look the part. Stop the disrespect of the Mexican people!
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Chicana,
Just a quick comment – there are plenty of Mexicans just as – or even more – light skinned as Paz Vega. In fact, looking around the cafe where I am right now (in Mexico), most of the kids look about as white as I do.
I think Spanglish is a terrible name for the movie because it’s much more about relationships and love than culture and/or language. And keeping that in mind, I think Paz Vega did a great job.
I’m surprised no one has objected to the way the domineering White wife was portrayed. Talk about some stereotypes there.
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I don’t know what mexican kids you are seeing that look whiter than Paz Vega. The ones that come to the u.s are 100% indian. They are very short, very brown and have mongoloid features. In fact , let’s face it if she looks like a Mexican why do they have to go to Spain to get her? They have million of mestizos in this country. Why do they always use Antonio Banderas, Javier Bardem , Penelope Cruz etc if Spaniards look just like mestizos?
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Unfortunetly, there is never an easy answer to all this, the White ”latino”or ”hispanic” is angry and/or pissed off with that term because it puts him in the same category with the mexican indians/mestizos that are poor , low class and ugly for the most part. The mestizo on the other hand is ”proud” to be called ”latino” and they say it sometimes with such heavy mexican accent as ”pos yo soy latino…”…it’s an embarresment. Unfortunetly it’s the American media that has done this, the government also, some job applications in the US require you to put ”hispanic/latino” for everyone from central, south america and spain…No wonder Spaniards HATE being called ”latino” or ”hispanic”..it’s because of the connection it has with mestizos, indians and mulatos , and they don’t want to be part of that, and it’s understandable. Why do America plays meztiso roles played but true white spaniards?…simply to put them in the same category…Americans love to stereotype and to say’…they are all the same”
Unfortunetly, the term latino or hispanic is never gonna go away. Even worse, the term ‘’spanish”…what’s that? I’m not spanish, I’m I talian, but because I was born in south America now I am ‘’spanish”
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And I don’t want to hear the ”as long as they don’t call me a spic, i’m ok with it…” What’s that? I understand having national pride, someone who is mexican may say”I’m proud of being mexican” and that’s good, and BTW , not all mexicans are mestixo/indians, there are White mexicans also…this goes pretty much to all the so called ”latino” or ”hispanic” countries
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(conitinuing what I was writing before) but, when someone says”latino pride” or hispanic pride, and they want to put together any and every south american, central american and every spaniard in the same category, it’s wrong, there Asians, Whites, blacks, mulattos, mestixos, and more…all within the so called ”hispanic” countries. Please don’t put me in the same category, I’m White, and I’m proud of it, and I refuse to mark”hispanic” on an application, I always mark ”white”, even if it says…”white, not of hispanic origin blah blah bl…” I don’t care, I refuse to let the government or any type of authority to tell me ”No, you are not White, you are latino”…I don’t think so. If you feel like the term ”hispanic/latino” applies to you, because you might be mestizo/mulato, or because you agree with ”putting all the spanish speaking and the brazillians too” in the same category, go ahead, be my guest, but I think the whole stereotype is ignorant, because race is not just ”cultural” as they want to put it, race is actually more about ethnicity than anything…think about a japanese being born in Africa , growing there , does that mean we should call him ”black/african” or ”negro” …how absurd would it be…right?…oh but culturally blah blah bl…I don’t wanna hear it, it’s non sense
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The reason why Paz Vega playing a Mexican Maid is an issue:
1) She is a white European woman
2) Her daughter in the movie says to Tea Leoni’s character “you are the nicest “white” woman I have ever met”. When her own mother, Paz Vega, is white too.
3) Yes there are white Mexicans but since the little girl said this to Tea Leoni, it wipes out the possibility that Paz Vaga’s character is white
4) What if a brunette American like Sandra Bullock, who looks more ethnic than Paz Vega played a Mexican maid? Whould that be accepted? NO
5) It all boils down to American ignorance.
6) How can Jewish Adam Sandler be white as opposed to a European woman. In spain he would have been killed a hundred years ago because he is Jewish. Not European but Semetic. And Paz Vaga is European.
7)Paz Vega is WHITE