Posted 5 years, 8 months ago mid-afternoon by oso
The conservative Black Pundit and the liberal Latino Pundit have an interesting exchange going on about language in American society. Check out both of their positions and the comments below. This is what I commented on Latino Pundit’s post. Unfortunately he has HTML deactivated, so the links didn’t show up.
First of all, I seriously hope that Black Pundit’s comments weren’t deleted.
Secondly, I find it disheartening that a black man would define Standard English as the only acceptable form of communication in the US. Especially because it was Blacks in the 80’s and 90’s that made so much progress in getting Ebonics recognized as a valid form of communication in a multicultural society.
As Robert McCrum and Robert MacNeil point out in The Story of English, the very term Standard English is an oxymoron because the language has never had a static guideline of grammar or vocabulary. If it did, we’d all still be speaking like Sheakspeare.
Our language reflects our society; it always has. Just like citizens of other countries around the world are realizing the necessity of learning English in the 21st century, Americans should realize the need to learn Spanish.
BlackPundit certainly sounds like a jerk to me.
One thing that is NOT BROKEN in America is the manner in which we assimilate immigrants. We’re very good at it. Sure, it’s annoying to deal with a construction worker or fast-food checkout person who doesn’t speak understandable English, but somehow I am able to bear up under the strain.
No one doubts that usually the better a kid speaks ’standard English’ (which there is, in a business/academic sense), the better he’ll do in business and academia, and therefore in life in general.
It seems (and don’t hold me to it because I haven’t read everything BP’s written on the topic) that he wants to go the legislative route as opposed to the free market route when it comes to language (unless he’s ranting to no end).
I’m against providing government services to citizens in any language other than English simply because we can’t accomodate all languages. But I’m also against laws mandating that private companies cannot market to non-English-language-speakers, or hire who they want, regardless of language ability if they determine privately that it doesn’t affect their business negatively.
(If the Carl’s Jr. decided that being able to give directions to the place in English was more important than doing something else for the restaurant, good business management says that person wouldn’t be there for so long — but I don’t think giving directions in English is high on their requirements list for employees.)
Sure, the better English, the better job (usually) — what better use of an ‘invisible hand’ than in guiding parents to make the right choices in their kids education?
I have no need to learn Spanish. Just like I’m sure many who speak only Spanish in the United States have no need to learn English.
I posted this in response to the discussion over at LP’s blog,
Immigrant communities have always been insular. My granparents lived in an entirely Yiddish-speaking subculture, my paternal grandfather earned his living, basically, as a go-between for that subculture and the English-speaking world. At the turn of the last century, there was a thriving subculture in Yiddish-language theater, movies, newspapers, radio stations … I think there’s only one Yiddish newspaper now.
The language has all but died out in the U.S., and I think it’s because the people of my parents’ generation used Yiddish as a secret language to keep information from their children. I know that’s how it was for me at home.
(My wife speaks about as much Yiddish as I do. She was raised a Congregationalist in Columbus, Ohio, is descended from Scottish nobility, and could belong to the Mayflower Society and the DAR if she didn’t know I’d rag on her mercilessly about it.)
At the turn of the last century, 30 percent of the population of Cleveland was German-speaking and spoke no English. The English-language newspapers of the day Viewed the Situation With Alarm.
I’m a third-generation American myself, and I’ve always been fascinated by immigrant communities. My parents, aunts, uncles and grandparents were all part of immigrant communities, but I was outside of it because of the circumstances of my birth. There’s a vast difference between being raised by immigrants and being raised by native-born Americans, even if the native-born Americans who raised you were raised by immigrants.
Oso, although i do agree with you…I have an advantage in business because i speak spanish let’s not advocate that to everyone and lose our economic advantage…hehe, no but seriously, I do agree with you. Here is one everyone should learn: “Viva Bush!!”
Derek,
I would say that (especially in the future) those who speak two languages have the advantage in both business and academia. I know that being bilingual has opened up lots of opportunities for me. And I would assume (though I’m not sure) that more Mexican Americans are bilingual (or multilingual as many Southern Mexicans speak an indigenous language also) than other Americans.
Bobbo,
But you do have a reason to learn Thai don’t you my friend?
HP,
I knew that liberal streak of compassion was gonna come out sooner or later.
Mitch,
Great point. I remember going to German Town in Columbus and stuffing myself with Cream Puffs as a kid.
Ursula,
I say Viva Bush all the time, pero no estoy hablando del presidente.
LOL … just as I’m about to post the comment, a preview for the movie Spanglish comes on TV.
Oso – You grew up in Columbus? No kidding! My wife is from there—we were just there visiting her family over Thanksgiving. We stayed one night with her sister, who lives in Germantown.
Mitch,
Yeah, I remember reading your posts about that … you certainly seemed pretty damn excited to be returning to Ohio (sarcasm). I try not to say I was raised there, but I did live in Dublin from 6 – 11 and I went to St. Timothy’s Catholic school in Columbus. My parents were obviously trying to stifle my incredible potential.
I do however have fond memories of going to Germantown during Indian Summer (the one bearable month out of the year) and eating bread and looking around the bookstores and shops.
Well, I wouldn’t describe myself as “excited” to be there—but I do like Columbus, and I like Julie’s family and was happy to see them.
I wish I hadn’t picked up the flu there, though, and spent the next week in bed.
By the way, your previous post provides additional support for my theory that there is a secret worldwide cult of people from Columbus, and they crop up in the unlikeliest places.
Oso, yes, definitely bilingualism (in our international area especially) is even more desirable. I was speaking specifically of parents and immigrant communities who for some unknown reason eschew English (or don’t encourage or demand education for their kids and themselves in it voraciously).
I checked out both posts and some of the comments. This is one of those debates I just get tired of. I realize that I have the privilege of being bilingual in English and Spanish (most of the times when I hear this debate it’s about Spanish speakers and immigrants from Mexico and other Latin American countries). I don’t think I can ever understand the frustration of people like BlackPundit. And really, I think their “inconvenience” pales in comparison to what immigrants go through in this country.