Posted 3 years, 11 months ago in the early evening by oso
OK, just logged on - and so far all I can say is this … the debate needs to be head to head. And Bush looks like a mouse when Kerry’s talking.
1000 extra border patrol agents for what? To protect us against the Mexican terrorists?
“The best way to protect you is to stay on the offense” - bush
We’ll bring them home when the mission’s accomplished
- bush
I thought mission was accomplished when Bush landed on the air carrier.
Eli just said Kerry looks better than Gore did in 2000 and I agree with him - confident, but not pompous.
I definitely understand why the media starts talking about their tans and sighs - ’cause they sure as hell don’t say anything new.
Instapundit says Bush should bring up today’s news that a San Diego Unified School District paper was found in a laptop computer in Iraq.
Poland?
Hugh Hewitt is marking a live scorecard of the debate.
Yeah man, don’t forget Poland …
“I think we can be optimistic and realistic at the same time … we can’t send mixed signals” - bush - That’s so classic!
David Adesnik of Oxblog is liveblogging from Miami. “Brought to you by Pabst Beer” he says. Here in Pacific Beach I’m with Eli, KC, and Willie and we’re here brought to you buy Bear Beer … of course.
Kerry goes over Bush’s lies:
- no nukes
- no coalition
- did not exhaust the un process despite further diplomatic efforts going underway
- misled in his speech when we’d plan
- misled when he said we’d go as a last resort
“The only thing consistent about my … opponents postion is that he’s been inconsistent. We have a duty to rid the world of WMD” - Bush
“After we prayed, teared up, and laughed some …” Bush
I was waiting for Kerry to bring up his own experience compared to Bush’s
But seriously … Bush is such a bad speaker
“The plan he talks about simply won’t work” - Bush
Fellow San Diegan Citizen Smash (who was on These Days this morning) is live blogging as well.
Bush looks like he’s gaining confidence … I don’t think this debate is going to change any voters’ minds
“By speaking clearly we’ve made the world a safer place” - Bush (and the linguists cringe)
Thatta boy Kerry - just pegged Bush when he said in response to a question about Iraq, “they atacked us first.” Bush is now making his mouse face while Kerry speaks.
“of course I know osama bin laden attackes us … i know that” - bush
“he had the capability to make weapons and he woulda made them” - Bush. He must be talking to Nancy Reagon’s astrologer.
Kerry defends the right to pre-emption
“the global test” - Kerry - what the hell is that?
Is Kerry saying he’d ratify the Kyoto Protocol?
Bush saying he wouldn’t join the ICC - “it’s the right move to not join a foreign court where are people can be prosecuted” - it’s so sad that most Americans will agre with him
“Korean penunshula” - Bush
Kerry needs to start talking about his plan for the future more and not what he would have done in the past
How sad … Lehrer has to point out for the audience what the difference is between the two candidates
Should we send troops into Darfur?
Kerry: “Yes it’s a genocide and months ago we were pushing for action.” (who’s we?) “One of the reasons we can’t do it is because we’re over extended. We could never allow another Rwanda”
Bush: I agree it’s genocide. We shouldn’t be putting in troops.
Lehrer’s making it personal - “character deficits”
10:05 PM: Every time Bush is in trouble he talks about “freedom” and “democracy” as the way to win the war in terror. How many times has Kerry used either of those words? What is his vision for winning the war on terror?
- Oxblog
C-SPAN’S CONSISTENT SPLIT-SCREEN is the best of the TV treatments, I think.
- Instapundit
Lehrer’s trying to do them a favor and figure out what the hell they differ on
Bi-lateral talks - that’s what they differ on
Debate’s last question re: Putin and Russia
Bush says it’s not ok what Putin is doing - consolidating power - in Russia
You can tell Lehrer is getting frustrated with Bush’s IQ - conservatives are definitely gonna call that bias
They’re both running on the “war president” platform
Kerry ends with “God Bless America”
Bush: “The Military will be an all-volunteer army” - I’m glad he declared that … and surprised he did it when he didn’t have to
I think Bush probably ended stronger than Kerry.
Yawn. Boy, that wasn’t so exciting.
I hope you’re...
Very unsurprising, although Kerry did better than I expected. How many times did Bush say “diversion war” and “wrong war, wrong time, wrong place”??
That debate was hilarious. Bush is a funny, funny man. My favorite part was when he confused himself on the Iranian sanctions. He began by touting the sanctions against Iran as a positive step, but in part of Kerry’s counter he noted Bush didn’t do anything about Iran’s recent activity with nuclear weapons, that Britian, Germany, and France brought international pressure on the situation. In Bush’s brilliant counter he reminded Kerry it wasn’t his administration who brought about America’s unilateral sanctions against Iran. Kerry only seemed to smirk, instead of hitting what would have been an amazing point. That if there were international sanctions against Iran, like Kerry seemed to be arguing for, then America wouldn’t have unilateral sanctions and company’s like Halliburton wouldn’t be able to undermine the spirit of American law forbidding trade with Iran. Halliburton is able to have an office open in Tehran through a foreign owned subsidary. Dick Cheney was known to oppose unilateral American sanctions against Iran while he was in charge of CEO because it would hurt buisness. So it seemed Mr. Bush had his wires crossed, first praising then desparaging the sanctions. Ah man. This is a long post. But it’s angering, a tad. Hopefully someone raises a ruckus over this, I mean, that’s the type of issue that can piss some people off and it’s something the Republicans wouldn’t fail to harp on day in and day out.
Poland!
Poland!
Poland!
Josh I totally agree - I can’t believe Kerry didn’t pounce on that one. Though it must be said that Kerry’s smirk is way way cooler looking than Bush’s.
that was a good ‘ol fashion ass-kicking if you ask me. Almost made me want to be pro-Kerry rather than anti-Bush.
There are at least a few reasons to not like George Bush II, ranging from both the bowled-over-laughing and obvious (the ha-ha), to the even more searing, subtle and painful (the oh-man). Yes, I know, it is funny when he smiles proudly after he has successfully pulled off using a big word like “vociferously,” in a rich man’s southern drawl mind you, without any too serious or miss-appropriate complications. Yes, I know, it is comical when he boasts enthusiastically, “of course I know Osama Bin Laden attacked us … I know that!”
But quite frankly, there are a whole bunch of reasons to not like Kerry even more (dude, look at the camera once dog!) Sadly, Bush II is the more appealing candidate for the servile and servant, the submissive and sedated of the American populace. He is the more attractive man, the more polished and perfected trophy-wife, the most endearing and all-pleasing subterfuge. “They hate us, those fuckers; Man! Alliances? America don’t have to listen to nobody!” Aren’t there going to be a lot of Americans thinking and believing something similar? The Texan gives a great deal of people a great deal of what they want to hear, in the most simple and easily accessed and relatable parlance. “God Save the Queen,” in Cockney terms. Or, “All Hail Caesar,” for all you fans of the classics.
Essentially, what kills Kerry more than anything else, at least in this narrow field of substantive content regarding the “War on Terror” (by the way, the most inappropriately labeled term to enter the American political lexicon since the naming of the Department of Defense), is his inevitable insistence upon the divine right of US unilateral acts of force to protect US “interests.” Or as Kerry puts it: “The president always has the right, and always has had the right, for pre-emptive strike. That was a great doctrine throughout the Cold War… No president, through all of American history, has ever ceded, and nor would I, the right to pre-empt in any way necessary to protect the United States of America.” Amen.
It is basically impossible to maintain this steadfast support of the doctrine of pre-emptive war, and argue, with lucidity, clarity, intelligence, or any type of significant and human moral conviction, that the US had the right, nay the duty, to attack a wholly defenseless country left impoverished and imperiled at the hands of years of crippling US imposed sanctions. To say that America can do whatever it wants, and yet in this instance America couldn’t or shouldn’t have done this, the most baseless and obvious manifestation of what it wants (money, oil, power), is too close to self-contradictory. It is just too hard to logically justify in any form of simplicity or easy-to-swallow sound bytes, the most preferred form of American political thought. It just doesn’t make enough sense. And so the American people are more likely to reject the notion that America (Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz) proceeded in their own self-interest at the expense of making America and the world a much less safe place, rather than believe America does not have the right to act unilaterally in the world. Kerry knows this and knows he must walk a fine line.
Honestly, I thought the debate was pretty even and that there were no big surprises. Yes, Kerry did seem firm and confident in his criticism of Bush. I don’t think Bush wilted at all or did much to weaken his cause. He pretty much said what he has been saying all along, “stay the course,” “war on terror,” “September 11th,” etc. He did it effectively. I don’t think the couple long pauses or the few misstatements were nearly enough to convince those people who haven’t already realized that this guy is a complete idiot and a mere mouthpiece for those really in charge. Both candidates seemed relaxed, confident, and personable. Most polls show a slight victory for Kerry, and I think this makes sense as he had much more to show to the public; he was the more unknown. Perhaps what is most telling and most significant about these debates, and the American political dialogue generally, is that on the day of some of the heaviest fighting in Iraq and on a day in which 35 children were killed in a Baghdad blast, neither of these facts received any attention by either candidate. Relying on the moral convictions of the American public to oust a leader responsible for heinous crimes and unspeakable atrocities is a losing strategy, and both candidates know it.
“[Kerry]was judged the winner of the debate by more than 2-to-1, 57% to 25%. By 13 points, voters say Kerry expresses himself more clearly than Bush. By 10 points, they say he is more intelligent.” - It’s nowhere near over but those are pretty astounding figures considering there are people who would never admit the fallibility of the pres and since this was supposed to be his strength. Kerry already has a lead in the polls on economic and most domestic issues. I’m fairly certain that Bush co. has something up their sleeve for October, but this was a pretty lopsided victory for Kerry’s campaign.